Paths To Knowledge (dot Science)

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The Most Important Conversation to have with a Roman Catholic or other Christian

Posted by pwl on September 6, 2009


Over a period of 28 hours or so this long weekend I had a conversation with someone, CK, I met on Face Book who shared a common technical interest. We had a number of other exchanges with each other over the past few months but this one was different partly for it’s brutal honesty and partly since CK choose to jump out of what was likely the most important conversation of his life.

I managed to save a copy of the conversation moments before CK deleted my access (it was on his wall) and thus ending the conversation with us two. Likely he’s busy gathering agreement with his friends that I’m an evil no good person when in fact it’s likely that I’m one of his best new friends he’s ever had. Be that as it may, here is a non edited transcript (spelling corrections were made). Oh, from what I can tell CK is a young adult male with a gay lover and a roman catholic upbringing.

I hope this helps when talking with religious delusionals of all sorts but christians in particular since we deal with dispensing the christian miracle mythologies here.

I’ll add comments and expand my responses and even critique my own responses over the next few weeks or so as I have time to reread the transcript below and think longer it.

All the best and live long and prosper in peace. Your feed back and comments are appreciated.


ps. This Jesus and Mo comic is appropriate since CK’s solution for “resolving the incompatibilities” between science and religion is to become insane by fully embracing “cognitive dissonance” and not working to resolve the conflict even though he claims to work towards that end. More on this in the conversation. He also, as you will see, negotiates his way between these two incompatibilities by accepting part of Objectivism (it’s basic three axioms of existence, identity and consciousness) while maintaining his “faithful belief” in his invisible super friends even though acknowledging that objectivism provides “proof” that there are no gods other than those in human minds. Thus CK’s religious driven insanity.

CK: just wants to find SOMEONE who shares his philosophies… lol

PWL: What philosophy are yours?

CK: Except for the stance on matters of sexuality and religion, I’m a staunch objectivist. Go Ayn Rand!

I believe cognitive dissonance is the greatest evil in the universe.

That’s a good start to the summary. In essence, I believe you must accept a small set of axioms as true, and then use inductive logic based on that. If only I could put my axioms in words… lol

PWL: I am also a big fan of Ayn Rand.

People do work well together and can in many circumstances work towards their mutual benefit.

What do you mean by cognitive dissonance?

I’m confused by your sexuality considering you seem to be very catholic… seems mutually incompatible to me.

I’m confused by your religious stance and Ayn Rand, objectivism proves that your mythical god doesn’t exist and is just an artifact of your mind wanting comfort or what not. So you’re not a staunch objectivist if you believe in the mythical invisible super beings and thus the supernatural realm.

The real world doesn’t care about our philosophies since it doesn’t care about anything.

They are not axioms if they are not in words…

BUT then Leaps of Faith know no boundaries or limits and ignore any that are pointed out. That is the essential nature of a leap of faith, it destroys actual rational thinking with the emotional non-rational leap of faith.

“Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The “ideas” or “cognitions” in question may include attitudes and beliefs, the awareness of one’s behavior, and facts. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors, or by justifying or rationalizing their attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors.[1] Cognitive dissonance theory is one of the most influential and extensively studied theories in social psychology.” – Cognitive Dissonance.

So if you believe “cognitive dissonance” is the greatest evil in the universe why do you practice it?

Why do you consider it evil?

MD: wow :{

CK: Sexuality: Rand didn’t exactly believe they should wait until they found the right one, and then stay with them the rest of their life. Yes, objectivism does reject the almighty.

When I say cognitive dissonance, I mean holding two apparently exclusive beliefs wihout batting an eye — it’s an offense to reason. In my case (objectivist Catholic), although you’d think they are exclusive, but the reason I believe they are not is that I do not blindly believe — I observe the positive effects of faith, I observe the evidence of miracles, and I make judgments for myself. I consider the beliefs and try to reason and justify them.

If I were to just say, “well, it is” THEN faith and reason would be exclusive. But to examine faith and try to reason about it, why you believe it even when you know science, then you have used reason. You just use inductive logic rather than deductive logic.

PWL: Actually you must use actual repeatable verifiable evidence not logic or some belief stricken dogma system…

As the saying goes you are mistaken about a great many things CK.

There are no real positive effects of faith that are not available without faith!

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Posted in Adult Supervision Required, Awesome beyond awesome, Bad Science Attitude, Belief Stricken, Believe it or your a denier!, Big Brother Planetary Control System, Biology, Ethics in Science, Evil Walks the Earth and Carries a Big Stick, Exercise for the Reader (that's you), Gay, Get some perspective people, Hard Science Required, Holding those who run the world responsible for their crimes against humanity, Human|Ape, Humbled by Nature, Ideas Crazy Enough to Have a Chance, Ignorance to Knowledge, Intelligent Designer - Yeah Right, Invisible Friend Crowd, It's a good thing that your god(s) die with you, Majestic Universe, Math, My Invisible Friend Needs Me For His-Her-Its Existence, Philosophy, Proof God Can NOT Exist, Proofs Needed, Rational Thinking, Really Funny, Religion, Scams, Science over Propaganada, SkyNet Battlefield Earth, Some Intelligent Designer, Something to think about, Terrorfying, The End is Nigh, The Ground is Falling Up!, The Sky Is Falling, To Hell With You Buddy, Total Control Over Our Lives, WOW!!!, Yeah Right, Yikes! The sky is NOT falling!, Zombie Jesus | Leave a Comment »

Michael Joins the Zombies in a case of Life Imitating Art

Posted by pwl on June 25, 2009

“Michael Jackson will never die.” – Celine Dion on Larry King Live, June 25th, 2009.

That clinches it! He’s a Zombie!!!

Posted in Eeek!, Evil Walks the Earth and Carries a Big Stick, Gay, Get some perspective people, Live Brains!, Thriller Zombie Attacks, Yikes!, Zombies | Leave a Comment »

Live Brains

Posted by pwl on May 10, 2009

Posted in Double Yikes!!, Eeek!, Film, Fun, Gay, Get some perspective people, Human|Ape, Humbled by Nature, Sex, Terrorfying, Video, Yikes!, Zombies | Leave a Comment »

You and me baby ain’t nothing but mammals so lets do it like they do on the discovery channel

Posted by pwl on April 29, 2009

Catchy tune. Great video except for a couple parts.

“Bad Touch”, Hooray for Boobies, is a song by “The Bloodhound Gang” on Geffen Records.

All members of this gang are male. This is important later. As you can see in the video only the members of the bloodhound gang are wearing monkey suits. Very important.

The Notorious Bloodhounds in costume.

The Notorious Bloodhounds attack women in a violent sexist action.

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Posted in Awesome, Biology, Entertainment, Fun, Gay, Homophobic, Music, Politics, Rational Thinking, Really Funny, Science Education, Sex, Sexist, Video, Violent, WOW!!! | 22 Comments »

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